Full Response to Nick Esteve and Renewed offer to Event
02/06/2008 by tim.
Nick,
I’ve been involved in the Eastbourne skate scene for 23 years (professionally since 1993). I’m one of England’s longest serving, highly qualified and most widely experienced skate instructors and an NSP trainer. To survive that long in any line of business demands a level of passion and integrity.
I will be judged on my long standing record, as well as my current actions, lesson quality and work for the skating community. I’ve been around longer and more publicly than most, so it’s easier so find mud and fling it my way. However life is a learning curve and I’ve had opportunity to learn quite a lot, luckily more from success than from mistakes! I welcome the opportunity to be judged by the skating community, but be aware that as this is public, you too, will also be judged.
Of course there’s no smoke without fire, except with you Nick – smoke and mirrors!
I’ve read that people under stress, often “push out” their own surface thoughts and fears verbally. For example in a fight a fearful person, worried about death might shout “I’m going to kill you”. Vocalising their innermost fear and trying to throw it at their opponent. With this in mind and re-reading your post, gives an interesting insight! But enough speculation…
I think the first thing to make clear is I have no gripe with the ESA, its people, its Team, its members or its ideals or it’s event. I fully support all of that. My issue is solely with you. This is not about Sk8school vs. the ESA (though I know you would like it to look that way and will and do, and have done quite a bit of work to ensure people perceive it that way), this is entirely a clash of personalities – you to me. One of the reasons for “going public” was to ensure everyone understood, or has the chance to understand, that Sk8school has no problem with the ESA at all. How can it? They are utterly different entities working in different areas! Tim Wheals has no problem with the ESA at all. I don’t really believe the ESA has a problem with me or Sk8school either – or wouldn’t if they were ALLOWED to make up their own minds and were ALLOWED to see both sides of the situation – unlike for example, on the Forum where you control the information displayed and removed.
I wonder in fact how many of the “ESA team” actually were allowed to read my original post? Did they just get a condensed version from you and encouragement to sign off your response? How many actually even saw your response before it was posted? I’m guessing the “ESA team” is several people – 5?, 6?, 10? I find it “interesting” that out of so many people not one managed to say hang on – shouldn’t we at least do a grammar and spell check before we send this to the world?!
Additionally you’re post went out really, really fast after our little “discussion” at the Turning Circle – you did awfully well to get a Quorum of ESA Team together, vote on an action, draft a response and sign it off together so quickly! Or maybe the ESA Team doesn’t know the full story?
Information is power.
In histories experience, those people who most crave power are most usually the worst suited to it.
I note, since my initial response on the WhealsON blog, essentially just acknowledging your post and copying it up – with a little note of thanks to Tony D, that his post is also now missing! Considering he was just trying to pour oil on troubled waters that was an interesting choice you made! Unfortunately I didn’t copy his post so people will now never know of his efforts, however you did encourage a new post from him about dance demo’s as a consolation.
I note also that on Monday, you’ve taken down your post about/for me. I’m guessing you we’re told you went to far – or worked it out for yourself. The “edit” has begun, It won’t be long before it never happened!
You should also be clear Sk8school is just a cooperative. It’s a bunch of independent instructors working together to reduce costs, by sharing common items, such as skate hire, insurance, website charges, Tshirt printing etc. Also sk8school has no public members – just instructors. Sk8 M8’s is a separate issue, but still – it’s informal, there are no members as such. It’s not “run” by me, I just attend as much as I can, because its fun. I do suggest “lets do this” because its fun, I don’t make people attend things. If other people suggest things, I put it on the website – the current London trip is an example of someone else’s idea.
The main thing is that Sk8school is Transparent and accountable, it has integrity, everyone knows what it is, how it works. They know what to expect. Like us or not, one thing everyone will agree on, is that we have nothing hidden. We have that integrity. What we charge is visible up front, what you get for it is demonstrate able. I’ve been submitting written audited accounts since being a Director of the shop SkateHog (2000-2003) and I can account for all cash and cheques going back that long if I have to. (and I have to every year for the tax man).
No surprises, just a normal respectable business.
Of course anyone reading your last post might not view things as quite so respectable any more, but that was a calculated risk I understood, when I invited this public discussion. I am confident that my actions at the time were at worst “Ok ish” by any ones standard, but I’m quite happy to go through them all one by one and by history be judged.
You wrote quite a lot, so it’s taken some time to layout responses, that do each point justice, in a readable format. I welcome comments from anyone on this post.
Dear Tim W
Thank you very much for your post. I am somewhat surprised to see you discussing these issues so publicly. Certainly this is the response I was hoping from you almost 2 years ago. However your email now needs to be put into context. The ESA cannot simply ignore some of your unethical business practices that you personally put into place against the ESA and other skating businesses in Eastbourne. As it was your decision to discuss this so publicly, I think this is a perfect opportunity to raise some of our concerns and explain to all of our and your members the reasons behind the ESA not being overly keen in working with skate school.
There is a good reason for the public airing of this dispute, as it rolls on I expect the reason will become painfully clear. As more people discover this Blog and spread the word, more will start to say - “that’s not how I heard it was”. And then they will start to think.
Context would make more sense if my post had not been removed from your forum!
“ESA and other skating businesses”, isn’t the ESA an association (as per the name?) rather than a business? I’d like to go into this in great detail later.
Agreed I want it all public – thank you!
Whatever happened to “All we want to do is work together?” that’s almost your catch-phrase?
Firstly I appreciate that the ESA is having a major impact on skate school. I know that you simply cannot compete on price or services. The fact that we can offer the same level of service for a tenth of the price must obviously be of concern to you. Knowing how you have operated in the past we are certainly not surprised to still see so many snide comments about us littering your website. We are skaters and that’s what we want to concentrate on! We certainly do not want to stoop to your level.
Since when were you in competition? Isn’t the ESA supposed to support all skaters in Eastbourne and work with them? Including the businesses? Is there another agenda now?
Price and Service? You apparently do free “lessons”, we do free lessons. (Except our free lessons don’t charge an entrance fee and our instructors are currently certified, wear all the gear, are better qualified, more experienced, do more than just tips etc.)
You certainly cannot offer the same level of service, but you do have the price difference right in your post. There’s an old adage – you get what you pay for. Some people will always want it cheap, you cater for that market, good luck with it.
Please point them out, anything inaccurate or offensive will be removed.
I’m taller than you. Therefore I’d need to do the stooping.
However, you specificaly asked me to respond in public, explaining why you are not involved currently at the Extreme festival. This suggest to me that you are once again miss leading your members as you are fully aware of the reasons as this was explained to you by myself and the Eastbourne Borough council.
Yes – thank you, I did want you to respond in public, however my question was not about explaining why we are not involved in the Extreme festival. My post was an offer to you to support the event, by completely running an area for you for a significant portion of the time. I was expecting either: A] Thanks but although we didn’t make it clear we already have plans for that area. Would you like area X instead? OR B] Cheers that’ll be fantastic!
Nick we are a Sk8school, we have no members, we have Instructors, numbering 5 in Eastbourne and several in other locations EG. London. Therefore “misleading members” is impossible.
After that I confess I’m lost – I assume you mean – for the Event (and try to remember that’s just a weekend Nick – not all year) that all skating arrangement goes through you and on your say so and terms. I know control is a big factor for you.
However you would like to know why we are uncomfortable in working with you. Most skaters will not be aware that when we started the ESA you tried to high jack and miss lead skaters in Eastbourne by promoting yourself within the ESA, stating on your site that people who have lessons with you will be then registered as an ESA member. With your IT skills you used the internet to direct those looking for the ESA to your website. Unfortunately not only did you try to trade and deceive members of the public by pretending to be involved in the ESA but you pursued the same action against a small local based skate hire business. Taking their name of ” Wheely good fun”.Your action led to you receiving a very strong worded letter from their solicitor. Soon after, we had a meeting ourselves explaining that we would also take legal action if you continue to mislead skaters and promote yourself as part of the ESA. We were asked by thier solicitor to save all of your web pages just in case you decide to continue with such practice.
Ok, first the bit about “lessons with me registers you as an ESA member”. - At the time the ESA site was extremely vague and basically said if you have skates on and you are in Eastbourne you are in the ESA, membership was that automatic. Therefore people coming for a lesson, trying hire skates for example… you get the idea. Maybe not a brilliant plan, somewhat tenuous even, but technically correct AT THE TIME.
Directing traffic and IT skills – There was a Sk8school page especially for ESA members because at the time I thought the ESA was going to be really big and would warrant it. Additionally I knew that websites under the control of other people tend to be “unreliable” (which I believe I have posted about, complete with screen shot – re your forum! - thanks for proving the point!) and updates for courses, events and such like, may not occur as rapidly, or accurately on the ESA site as we’d like. I did learn that calling it the Sk8school ESA page was not so good an idea (for more than one reason), but the page as such does still exist, in function if not in name. Was there a need for it? Is there a need for it? Well obviously yes! It has evolved over time and is now called the Sk8 M8’s page and it is the 3rd most popular page on our sites, behind the Lessons page and the WhealsON blog, getting readers from all over England and even overseas, which for a locally focused page of FREE event information is quite unexpected.
Interestingly the ESA seems to be running ever fewer free events these days, are the Sk8 M8’s actually doing more free events and trips than the ESA? Note: the Sk8 M8’s are informal and not organised or led. Certainly not by me! I have only attended around 50% of the Breakfast skates myself so far this year!
“Pretending to be involved in the ESA”, why would I need to pretend? At the time I was in Eastbourne and I had skates on! Membership granted! Later this was “tightened up” to signing up for a newsletter, and later still (as now) to forum sign-up. (All of these sign-ups were duly completed). I have not paid for a membership card yet, but why isn’t membership free, or is that purchase optional?
Wheely Good Fun. Of all of Nicks post this part has the most factually correct content. Here’s how it went. I would welcome comments from anyone on this – most especially Fiona if anyone knows where she is now.
Obviously my name is Wheals. I’ve been teaching a long, long time. I know all the “instructor speak” off by heart and have all the “in lesson” jokes. (As Steve Coogan said when I taught him, “you do these jokes all the time don’t you!?”) I also have several catch phrases. I can verify these with customers, all the way back to 1995 if I need to! My most used catchphrases are (or were before all this): “Forwards is best”, “This will be wheally good fun” and “nothing can go wrong”. Also as Skatehog’s instructor I actually taught Fiona, years before her business, so she would or should have been aware of them.
Now initially Fiona was the new kid on the block and as Sk8school was already well established (predominantly at the Turning Circle) and she was near the basket ball courts, she quickly became involved in the ESA. I did mention to her when she started that the name of her business was unfortunate given my name etc.!
Incidentally when did Fiona sever all ties with the ESA and why?
However, back to topic. Obviously business is business and Fiona started to put posters in the shops, but she was describing herself (alone) as a “skate school” which obviously has a lot more credibility than a single instructor. Technically Skate Schools require 2 things to be classed as Skate Schools (under ICP definitions anyway). Firstly you need more than one instructor and secondly you need a Level 3 ICP instructor in your ranks. Both of which Sk8school satisfies and Wheely Good Fun didn’t. My concern was of course if she’s calling herself “A” skate School, people might think she WAS THE Eastbourne Inline Skate School!
Now this is the part I did wrong and I admit it. However my motivation was to open a dialogue to get her to change her posters (which it certainly did, but not in the way I’d hoped!) as I thought people would mistake her for us. So I raised the profile of my catchphrase across all my websites and of course that started to replace her site in the search engines with mine. (which I thought was a fair swap, given the posters). Of course this is a slow process (for the internet to notice can be anything like 3-6 months) so by the time Wheely good fun noticed I’d forgotten all about it. Their reaction was as you note a solicitors letter, which was actually cleared up there and then with a single phone call and a few website changes. In hindsight of course it would have been easier if I’d just said, “you know what Fiona, I think your posters are a little unfair and people could be confusing you with Sk8school”. I wonder if Fiona could add anything to this? I would welcome her comments.
Our next issues with you were when you decided to book and use the Sovereign Centre hall under our name. Maybe this was an innocent mistake on your part but surely even with your common sense you would have realised how unusual it was to use a sport centre facility for free. We of course passed on your details to the centre so that they could charge you and not the ESA for the hall. I was informed that this led to you being banned from using their services again.
Can’t say this ever happened. However I do recall on 2 occasions being contacted by the Sovereign Centre (where Sk8school initially taught a year before ESA was founded), when the Sovereign Centre had double bookings or cancellations FOR YOU and who thought I was the contact for the ESA – presumably because they thought Sk8school (from a year past) was the same entity. On both occasions I phoned you Nick to say there’s been a mix up with YOUR booking. And asked YOU to ensure I am not the contact for the ESA! Since the time of the initial Sk8school bookings (2003) Sk8school has not used the Sovereign Centre AT ALL for any bookings (preferring EBC sports centres) except for one or two private lessons one winter, when all other hall space was booked. Obviously I would have used Sk8schools name. However, given they’ve got contact details wrong in the past, who knows? As for being banned from using their services – that’s news to me!
This brings me onto the Extreme. Once again your letter is very misleading. The Eastbourne borough council and I made it very clear to you that if you wish to participate in the event it needs to be organised and discussed with the ESA. May I again remind you that the funds raised in the ESA pays for the running of the skate festival. We have volunteers that give up their time 3 times a week through out the year to support the association and extreme with no financial gain to them. It is thanks to the ESA members that the festival runs. Yet you selfishly want to high jack the Extreme festival simply to promote your services for your own financial gain .To pretend otherwise and state that you are simply trying to help us is completely ridiculous and out of character. You only seem to want to help when Extreme is on.
Discussed with the ESA? - I posted the whole offer for discussion on the ESA forum. It wasn’t an Ultimatum it was an offer to help out in an area we already regularly use the rest of the year. We wouldn’t have minded either way you know! We’re quite happy to take the day off and just attend the event if you really think there’s no room!
Funding the event – yes I think that will be an interesting discussion for later.
Volunteers – yes we must talk about them! I think that will be an interesting discussion for later.
Hi-Jack for my own financial gain? - I think my post mentioned doing all that work, helping etc. for Free. If you remember I deliberately stopped running this event out of choice as 7 years was enough! It seems unlikely therefore that I’d be attempting to take it all on again, especially as late as June, when typically I’d have started planning last August! I think offering to demo and teach is quite enough of a task as it stands given the time scale. I’d certainly not want more work than that!
Yes there would be an amount of promotion during lessons at an Event like Extreme, collecting contact details etc. But surely that’s normal isn’t it? Are there any other businesses that turn up to Extreme just to give their employees a tan?
Are you sure you read my post?
When would the ESA otherwise need help?
The fact that you mentioned in your letter that your services will be “free of course” is laughable as it was your money driven attitude to charge everyone for skate lessons and skate hire last year that prevented you being in the festival. It was your attitude that led us to invest in skate hire equipment and qualified skating instructors.
Why should a private business gain financial reward off our volunteer workers without offering any form of logistical or financial support. That opinion was relayed to you very clearly by Mike Marcham from the Eastbourne council. Why do you continue to pretend that you are unaware of this?
Actually what prevented us being in the Festival was you. We offered to run our usual Free lessons at the Turning circle as we did not want to teach again at the basket ball courts for the exact reasons outlined in my post (experience gained from previous years with you at the Event helm – turn it up, turn it up! - Even shouting, event goers could not hear our instruction, when we last taught at Extreme in the Basket Ball courts). Trying to charge at a free event of course would be ludicrous unless we’d had to pay to be there and needed to recoup the cash! (Which would be impossible on your terms for the space required of course – and quite obviously that’s your plan).
Time-line? Didn’t you have skate hire before last year? Also “skate instructors” (You only? – currently not a paid up ICP member either, who are the others?).
I think my post is quite clear, we’d do everything for you if you wanted any part of the offer – or to even discuss it! Your volunteers would be off the hook and can do something more beneficial to the event than, for example looking after skate hire, or you could have double the skate hire for half the outlay!
It would be a very good idea if you left Mike out of this, which should be entirely between yourself and me (although at my request public). Mike is a good personal friend of mine and I owe him a great deal. For the record he said last year that we’d have to go through the ESA (specifically you). So you got a posting making an offer this year once I heard the Turning Circle would be included, as stated other areas are not suitable, so there was no point applying earlier. We are of course quite happy to make way for the event there if we are not required – but we have offered (see post!) to do something there FOR YOU, if you want it.
The Extreme festival is about promoting skating and having fun. Please try to remember this. I really hope this year that you will try to conduct yourself appropriately and professionally, then we may discuss your possible involvement. Simply employing dirty and under hand tactics will not do you any favours with me or the ESA team. Once again you seemed to have angered the ESA team with your arrogant attitude. As for us being short of responsible adults, may I just add we have such a fantastic group of adult skaters that many are offering their services to help with Extreme. They certainly appreciate what we are trying to do and I think you should try too.
How can I forget – I created the event in its original form in 1998, with progressively more and steadily massive help over the years from Mike and various other EBC event and sports development team members.
“conduct yourself appropriately and professionally, then we may discuss your possible involvement” which is a vast change of tune from your speech at the turning circle on Sunday 1st June 2008. (The public effect perhaps?) Unfortunately it was just us there, so what you actually said is effectively unprovable. Hence my public discussion requirement.
“Dirty and underhand tactics” - I totally agree that this is not on. Which is why I asked for everything to be conducted in public. The astute will note, that who ever asked for public discussion probably doesn’t have a hidden agenda. I wonder who will try to break off such public discussions first? My major difficulty with all previous dealings with you, is that one thing would be said one day to one person and there would be a completely different tune the next. This way there is no wriggle room. I’m happy to give multiple examples if requested.
By lack of responsible adults I refer of course the the large number of EX-ESA people, who were so VERY VERY active within the ESA and the filling of these vacancies with (indisputably keen and talented) teenagers. Their appointment is not the problem of course - I wonder, why such high profile people left in such numbers? Would you like to explain? Does the remaining membership ask such questions? Or do they have a “filtered view”? If they are told what to think, perhaps they don’t need to ask questions!
The ESA it should be noted I don’t have a problem with. The people it consists of are in the main a wonderful bunch, many of whom are my customers, regular customers at that. The ESA as an organisation and concept I have no problem with, the event, I have no problem with. The “ESA team” I have no experience of directly, however I have it on trusted authority that they are also a fine and upstanding bunch.
I even have some respect for some of your abilities, slalom for example, your efforts at the Extreme park on the PA one year, were actually quite good and initially you did guide the ESA as a none profit Association in the right direction.
The issue currently is solely you. A clash of personalities if you will. For the ESA to move forward, I believe you need to take a back seat. You’ve done you’re best with your post to dig up some mud and sling it my way. I believe YOU actually have a fair bit of mud accumulating yourself, but it won’t be so easy to come clean. I believe that it would be better for you to step down so the ESA can go from strength to strength without danger of being likewise tarnished. I believe that this accumulating pile is starting to act as a brake on ESA development and innovation. I believe that in your ever more desperate attempts to maintain control and make “everyone work together” you are actually the main force pushing everyone and everything apart.
I massively appreciate the event, what the ESA are trying to do etc. I’m up for helping - which part of my post offer sounds like not helping? It is solely you, not the ESA, its people or what it stands for that I have any problem with.
As for involving skate school to get that professional touch then maybe we will have to survive without your card board paper banners. I suggest that if you talk about yourself as being professional then you need to demonstrate that to others through your conduct. Based on your past conduct and your arrogant letter this may be difficult.
The banners are plastic Nick, cardboard would be no good in our climate.
The professional I’m referring too is the quality of the instruction, demo’s etc. we can provide. Get professionals in, it raises the overall quality for the event and makes it better for everyone, plus frees up other resource (like ESA marshals) to cover other areas, thus making them better too. In my not inconsiderable experience of events, I know for a fact that any help is fantastic news, but qualified and professional help is gold dust.
The offer still stands.
Surely having more instructors and skate hire at the event can only get more people into skating can’t it? Isn’t that what the ESA is all about? It’s certainly what Sk8school does every week. Why do you think that exclusion is the way forward? And why from your point of view, does everything need to appear to be two organisations working against each other, when in reality the two are so different there should not be overlapping space for competition! There are two markets here and they are different. In my view there should be no problem, but it appears you go to great lengths to enforce and maintain a distinct division. Have us both there – imagine – with us both trying to out do each other, with service, demo’s etc. how great that would be for the general public! What a boon for skating if all the negative energy could be made positive!
Once again Tim, if you wish to participate in the Skate festival then you need to go through the right channels. To organise your own skate event at the Extreme is unlawful and this has been clearly explained to you by prior council communication. You high jacking the festival for your own financial selfish gains will again be raised in the council meeting and I’m sure the council will once again write to you expressing that very opinion.
Isn’t posting an offer to the Forum the right channel? Are you aware of what a forum is for?
Where does this idea of me having my own skate event at Extreme come from? Why would I want to arrange another one? Isn’t that what I wanted to stop arranging since 2003? (7 years was enough!) Are you sure you read the post? It’s an offer to cover an area for you, do teaching and demo’s, get people skating and enjoying it. All the things Sk8school has excelled at since 2003, and I’ve done since the first ICP courses in England in 1995. (and even before that at Hailsham Lagoon roller disco since 1993!)
After that obviously you stop making sense!
From now on Tim please send your correspondence via the appropriate channels. Please note that your account with us has been suspended.
Which should make it pretty difficult to use the proper channels then!
In response – and to avoid problems of posts being edited, lost, forums being unaccountably unavailable and other un-forseen technical difficulties, I’m copying everything to the WhealsON blog. This should allow for uninterrupted discussion until this is resolved.
Additionally is allows ESA and non ESA people a chance to see an unfiltered view of both sides, so they can make up their own minds. Currently for example, everyone viewing your forum will just get the idea I’ve done something unspeakably bad, but won’t actually see the post that was my original offer.
It’s exactly that control you strive for at all times of course.
I wonder how unspeakably bad I’ll look, to the people that take the time to read the original post? I’d welcome comments.
This letter has been read and indorsed by the ESA team.
I can assure you, I’ve read it too. I wonder, how big, is the “ESA Team”? I have not had any dealings directly with them, although I hear on good authority from people I trust that many of them are indeed fine and upstanding people. I think the ESA Team has one thing in common. They are dedicated volunteers, passionate about skating and the ideals and values of the ESA. (I don’t include you in that Nick! - you are in my view the chairman or leader of the Team, not so much a team member, or indeed volunteer). I think I’d probably like this team if I ever met them. However – and this is speculation on my part – I also think the team is split into two groups. One group that loves and adores you and everything you say and do, prepared to follow you anywhere. And a second group who will also follow you anywhere, but out of morbid curiosity! I believe they are somewhat disillusioned, but cling to the ideals of the ESA -and rightly so – and I wish them luck, I wish it could be better for them.
I also believe, that at one point the ESA Team had a third group, equally passionate, dedicated, totally excellent respectable pillars of the skating community. This was the group that “questioned” that stood up to be counted. The ESA Team HAD them, they are now very definitely EX ESA. I wonder if there is a common theme running with these peoples reason for leaving?
The offer still stands.
In a recent conversation you mentioned trike’s at the turning circle. Are you not sure there is not room for both trike’s and Sk8school? A second free skate hire booth at the “other end of the seafront” might be quite handy?
Do what you will do. Every one can read this – they will judge for them selves and draw their own conclusions. Our offer stands up until July 1st after which I think it would be too late, to build anything good enough for an event of this standing.
In the meantime I will only post on this topic again to answer further questions, or comments, so if there are none, I’ll stay quiet. I expect the ESA will need plenty of undivided and un-distracted leadership to plan for the event. Afterwards though, I’ll be asking questions…
Nick’s Response to my offer to assist at Extreme Festival
01/06/2008 by tim.
Gentle readers: Before you read this a couple of warnings.
1. Yes it is messy and does get personal
2. Because Nick has removed my original post his reply is somewhat out of context and therefore the ESA membership will probably be a little confused! The original post is safely stored here : http://whealson.sk8school.co.uk/2008/05/31/sk8school-at-eastbourne-extreme-2008/
I am not going to add any further comments at this stage, I will agree with Nicks post on this one point immediately however and that is - I did ask that all of this happen in public. The only other thing I have to say is a thank you to Tony D for his comment after Nicks - I do agree with you, however there is of course a lot going on “under the surface”, that you won’t yet be aware off. This “public scrutiny” whilst not pleasant, some would say damaging to the skate community and perhaps skating in general is in my view a necessary evil.
The Astute will of course note that if one person in a disagreement has asked to make everything public, whilst knowing the risks, he must presumably have good reason for doing so?
This is Nicks post, utterly unedited and in its entirety. Initially I’d like the reader to view it and my original post and just make a few mental notes, gauge it for yourselves. I’ll do the dissection later, not now as it’s all a bit heated and besides there’s just too much to read!
I truly hope Nick will build a login and join me in the dissection over the next few days or week here.
Please feel free to build a login and comment away Nick - no one gets banned here!
Nicks “Answer”
Dear Tim W
Thank you very much for your post. I am somewhat surprised to see you discussing these issues so publicly. Certainly this is the response I was hoping from you almost 2 years ago. However your email now needs to be put into context. The ESA cannot simply ignore some of your unethical business practices that you personally put into place against the ESA and other skating businesses in Eastbourne. As it was your decision to discuss this so publicly, I think this is a perfect opportunity to raise some of our concerns and explain to all of our and your members the reasons behind the ESA not being overly keen in working with skate school.
Firstly I appreciate that the ESA is having a major impact on skate school. I know that you simply cannot compete on price or services. The fact that we can offer the same level of service for a tenth of the price must obviously be of concern to you. Knowing how you have operated in the past we are certainly not surprised to still see so many snide comments about us littering your website. We are skaters and that’s what we want to concentrate on! We certainly do not want to stoop to your level.
However, you specificaly asked me to respond in public, explaining why you are not involved currently at the Extreme festival. This suggest to me that you are once again miss leading your members as you are fully aware of the reasons as this was explained to you by myself and the Eastbourne Borough council.
However you would like to know why we are uncomfortable in working with you. Most skaters will not be aware that when we started the ESA you tried to high jack and miss lead skaters in Eastbourne by promoting yourself within the ESA, stating on your site that people who have lessons with you will be then registered as an ESA member. With your IT skills you used the internet to direct those looking for the ESA to your website. Unfortunately not only did you try to trade and deceive members of the public by pretending to be involved in the ESA but you pursued the same action against a small local based skate hire business. Taking their name of ” Wheely good fun”.Your action led to you receiving a very strong worded letter from their solicitor. Soon after, we had a meeting ourselves explaining that we would also take legal action if you continue to mislead skaters and promote yourself as part of the ESA. We were asked by thier solicitor to save all of your web pages just in case you decide to continue with such practice.
Our next issues with you were when you decided to book and use the Sovereign Centre hall under our name. Maybe this was an innocent mistake on your part but surely even with your common sense you would have realised how unusual it was to use a sport centre facility for free. We of course passed on your details to the centre so that they could charge you and not the ESA for the hall. I was informed that this led to you being banned from using their services again.
This brings me onto the Extreme. Once again your letter is very misleading. The Eastbourne borough council and I made it very clear to you that if you wish to participate in the event it needs to be organised and discussed with the ESA. May I again remind you that the funds raised in the ESA pays for the running of the skate festival. We have volunteers that give up their time 3 times a week through out the year to support the association and extreme with no financial gain to them. It is thanks to the ESA members that the festival runs. Yet you selfishly want to high jack the Extreme festival simply to promote your services for your own financial gain .To pretend otherwise and state that you are simply trying to help us is completely ridiculous and out of character. You only seem to want to help when Extreme is on.
The fact that you mentioned in your letter that your services will be “free of course” is laughable as it was your money driven attitude to charge everyone for skate lessons and skate hire last year that prevented you being in the festival. It was your attitude that led us to invest in skate hire equipment and qualified skating instructors.
Why should a private business gain financial reward off our volunteer workers without offering any form of logistical or financial support. That opinion was relayed to you very clearly by Mike Marcham from the Eastbourne council. Why do you continue to pretend that you are unaware of this?
The Extreme festival is about promoting skating and having fun. Please try to remember this. I really hope this year that you will try to conduct yourself appropriately and professionally, then we may discuss your possible involvement. Simply employing dirty and under hand tactics will not do you any favours with me or the ESA team. Once again you seemed to have angered the ESA team with your arrogant attitude. As for us being short of responsible adults, may I just add we have such a fantastic group of adult skaters that many are offering their services to help with Extreme. They certainly appreciate what we are trying to do and I think you should try too.
As for involving skate school to get that professional touch then maybe we will have to survive without your card board paper banners. I suggest that if you talk about yourself as being professional then you need to demonstrate that to others through your conduct. Based on your past conduct and your arrogant letter this may be difficult.
Once again Tim, if you wish to participate in the Skate festival then you need to go through the right channels. To organise your own skate event at the Extreme is unlawful and this has been clearly explained to you by prior council communication. You high jacking the festival for your own financial selfish gains will again be raised in the council meeting and I’m sure the council will once again write to you expressing that very opinion.
From now on Tim please send your correspondence via the appropriate channels. Please note that your account with us has been suspended.
This letter has been read and indorsed by the ESA team.
END QUOTE
Sk8school at Eastbourne Extreme 2008?
31/05/2008 by tim.
I’ve just written this post on the ESA forum to see if Nick wants Sk8school to run it’s usual quality Eastbourne Skate Lessons and a whole fun packed event program for him.
Here’s a copy of the open letter, as the ESA forum is pretty flaky and tends to loose posts!
Nick,
Just seen the latest “Newsletter” from the ESA forum, here’s a link to a copy of a Sk8school one : http://www.sk8school.co.uk/newspageapril.html
There’s plenty more here – if you are interested: http://www.sk8school.co.uk/skatenews.html
I think we’re right to be quite pleased with it as it now gets delivered to 2500 people a month (not including web views like the link above. The web version has the “juicy bits” taken out, as only subscribers get all the best bits!).
Anyway, I noticed from your mail that the Extreme Fest will be using the Turning Circle this year, though there is no detail as to what for…
Plenty of people are assuming Sk8school are going to be doing the lessons there as part of Extreme and have been asking me about it, though curiously I have not heard from you about this yet.
So, I thought I’d post the question here.
Does this mean you’ll want Sk8school to handle the lessons there as I offered last year?
As you know Sk8school are not happy with teaching in the Basket Ball area, most especially with loud PA and music there, making it almost impossible to instruct safely and to our usual quality standard.
If you do want us to assist, we are willing and we can assist quite a lot!
We can probably manage a full program (for free of course) from about 11-3 each day, including demo’s, kids club, exercise classes, clinics etc. (We do our free beginners lessons for the shops there at 11am every Sunday anyway, so it’s no big deal). It would also be an excellent opportunity to demonstrate content of our new Coaching and Improver’s Classes and our half day intensive “Mastering” courses.
The beauty of which of course is that we can handle all of it (including skate hire) for you, without you needing to worry about a thing, or take precious resource from other event areas. Which (given the ESA’s current “responsible adult” resource shortage) might be just the ticket to making Extreme a bit more manageable for you. Not only that but then the whole event will be more professional and all inclusive, with less headache for you as the “organiser” - and you get to offer more for the event! (How could you loose?)
Anyway give me a shout, as you know all 5 of the Eastbourne Sk8school Instructors are CRB checked, insured and of course we are the only currently paid up and ICP registered instructors in Eastbourne. Some are first aid trained too as a bonus. So you can be assured of the quality of the lessons and it means you’ll be able to use Sk8school’s name to add a little professionalism to the attractions at the event.
So just to recap – we can do a full program daily, including skate hire. We’re already insured, qualified and geared up. You’d need to provide no actual resource and you’ll have nothing to worry about throughout. Which means you get a whole area dealt with, without having to lift a finger. But we do need to be at the Turning circle – well away from overpowering PA/music etc.
The only way we can continue to provide Eastbourne’s highest quality skate instruction at the event is if we’re in an environment which we can control – otherwise we feel it would not be safe for anyone in our care.
We are very interested to hear your response.
Through this Forum will be fine.
Tim Wheals.
http://www.sk8school.co.uk
So who know’s maybe Extreme this year will be benefiting from Eastbournes best skate lessons and it’ll be one less headache for the ESA crew, who seem to be “leaking” quality membership of late.
